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Just spotted this article by Sophie about the number of complaints about used cars.

 

http://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/used-car-sale-problems-labelled-as-top-complaint-made-by-motorists/77436?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

"MORE than half of faulty used cars reveal their problems within a month of purchase"

Would be interesting to see the list of faults, are they actual faults ? also what age/ price band are all these complaints?

I saw a 'review' on a website a few weeks ago about a customer complaining about what was wrong with a car he'd bought for £895 - [Eight Hundred and ninety five pounds ] yes the car has to be road worth and a heap of junk , but what can you really expect for that price?

So is it down to customer expectations ?

We've all had cars perfect when we sell them and no reason the 'engine light' comes on - so that classed as fault ? Wrong use of fuel ? different type of driving?

 

 

 

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Would be interesting to find out how many faults relate to engine managment lights. The 'check engine' light can come on for 100's of reasons yet the car runs fine yet the only indication is the red/yellow light shining from your dashboard which in turn scares the customer to death! Other componants on the car could be in a far worse state (yet still useable) and the customer would neither know or worry.

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The engine light is so common and when the handbook is referred to usually says DO NOT DRIVE which would sound quite scary to someone who doesn't understand.

Customers lie about their part exes all the time thinking we won't check them, happy to sell us their 'scrappers' for retail money!

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Funny how a customer who's knows the in's and out's of the car they are trying to buy knows so little about their own part ex..."how many onwers???............eeerrmmmm, 2 before me I think" (HPI says 5)....service history?? ............yes..it's been serviced  (by the first 2 or the 6 owners)............."The airbag light is on"........................"Yes, it does that now and again, hasn't for a while, thought my garage had sorted it" ........MOT? ....."Well into next year, will have to check!!!" (2 weeks left).

 

They only advantage is with every lie their p/ex value falls more and more.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24777273

 

This article on the BBC website gives the example of the girl who buys a Micra for £1000 only for the clutch to fail within a few weeks and then to find out later that's been an insurance write off!! However she was given a replacement car but the brakes failed on that when her mum was driving it home! 

 

Now I'm not condoning the actions of this dealer (if in fact it was a licensed dealer, which I doubt) but I'm sorry it's maybe just me, but what quality of car can you actually buy on the market for £1000? Customers must realise this! What do they expect to get for £1000? Some services &MOT's cost more than a £1000 so how do you expect to buy a reliable car for this type of money? 

If you have only afford to spend £1000 on a car my advice would be, keep your money and don't buy a car or if you have to have one, expect it to let you down, expect it to cost you money to run, expect it break down when you are least expecting, that is the life of the £1000 car!

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This is a really interesting thread. I've worked extensively with Trading standards in the past. As an industry we need to work more closely with them to make sure that they understand that the price of a vehicle has to be taken into consideration when looking at the "faults".

 

Yes, they must be roadworthy, however I know a dealer who sold a £800 Escort with 100k on the clock, 6 months ( yes 6 MONTHS) later the buying brought it back with a seized engine. He was politely told that this wasn't covered. He took it to TSI who forced the dealer to take it back !!!!!

 

I later spoke to the lead motor officer for TSI who agreed this was unreasonable, but highlighted that there is still a lot of inconsistency

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I've read the guidence for motor dealers which was written by the OFT, the PDF file can be found by following the link below.

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/news-and-updates/press/2010/71-10#.UnyhRCdlJvY

 

The problem is that it's very open ended and leaves alot of 'grey area' especialy around the term 'a reasonable period of time'. There are no hard and fast rules with the dealer having to prove to faults weren't present at time of sale, which sounds easy but the guidence states that a fault could be present without being noticable.

 

It's a minefield and weighed in the customers favour (not a bad thing in certain cases) but if a dealer decides to try their hand in court it would require a Judge with a good degree of mechanic knowledge for the case to be ruled fairly.

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Work with trading standard and show them the issues from our side, ask them how it is possible to prove our case, show them that customers aren't 100% honest. Maybe they should set up an service where when the trade and the customer don't agree for a set fee TSI will come and mediate so the problem get sorted quickly and fairly.

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There is a simple way to deal with this which is the way that certain states in the US base their law such as Florida for example, In the state of Florida all used cars are sold "as is". The only warranty that they come with is the manufacturers warranty if that is still in force. The average used car dealer does not have to offer any warranty whatsoever only to make sure that the car is described correctly and not misrepresented, for example all accident damaged or ex rental cars must be declared but there is no onus on the dealer to offer any form of mechanical guarantee whatsoever. In reality most dealers will either sell or give away an MBI type warranty but they are not obliged to.

 

Its a simple system where everyone knows where they stand from the word go, it is up to the punter to check the car and make sure he is happy. If you want a warranty you buy one otherwise you are on your own. I have several good dealer friends over there and they can't believe their ears when they hear what we have to put up with over here, although every state has their own laws and I believe some give the public much more protection.

 

It will never happen over here in a million years because of our ties the the EU but just imagine how it would transform our industry if a law such as this was implemented, the small claims court would suddenly be a very quiet place.

 

Just imagine, you sell a car and as soon as it is driven off your forecourt,  you can be 100% sure it will never be your problem again, Heaven!

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autolink100 !! I am so glad I'm not over in the states ! or should I say we have better control here ! - I Certainly would NOT want that rule bringing over here, after all we are the 'professionals' and these customers are trusting us to provide a quality product. I think there are far too many out there already trying to shy away from their legal obligations selling un road worth vehicles.

I think it would just open up a floodgate of 'rogue' traders scamming the customer's ! 

Sell a quality product , look after the customer - explain what they are exactly getting AND 90% of the time you don't have an issue! and the other 10% well no one said it was a perfect life :) Am I on my own?

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autolink100 !! I am so glad I'm not over in the states ! or should I say we have better control here ! - I Certainly would NOT want that rule bringing over here, after all we are the 'professionals' and these customers are trusting us to provide a quality product. I think there are far too many out there already trying to shy away from their legal obligations selling un road worth vehicles.

I think it would just open up a floodgate of 'rogue' traders scamming the customer's ! 

Sell a quality product , look after the customer - explain what they are exactly getting AND 90% of the time you don't have an issue! and the other 10% well no one said it was a perfect life :) Am I on my own?

Umesh, What I like about their system is the simplicity of it. It is clear cut black and white and everyone knows where they stand. Here, we are forced to wrestle with the complexities of the SOGA which when applied to a 10 year old car for example is frankly a bit of a nightmare. What is considered 'of satisfactory quality' for example comes down to the opinion of a small claims court judge on the day, someone who may have zero mechanical knowledge.

 

Having such a system does not mean you can't look after your customers as you wish, there are many perfectly reputable dealers in the US who do just that. I would have thought that if anything, a system such as this would drive the public away from the cowboys and straight into the arms of reputable dealers.

 

Anyways, it's not ever going to happen here any time soon but I would have thought that if you asked a selection of dealers the simple question,

 

Would you prefer a system where you do not have to offer any warranty on any used car that you sell ?

 

I am pretty sure what the vast majority would answer!. A pretty emphatic YESSSSS! :)

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I think any reputable dealer will want to help a customer that they have sold a car too, surely? The problem here is that the law is very heavily weighted towards the customer but that is because of the stance that the motor trade used to take, that's why a law had to be utilised, so we are currently in this situation because of the bad guys (the Arthur Daleys) 0f the past!

 

Even if we didn't HAVE to offer a warranty we would! Not only does it protect our customer but also our company from any unexpected problems, which is why they are normally called 'mechanical breakdown warranty'.

If you don't loo after your customers, you don't get referrals and repeat business , without these you are dead in the water!

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If we didn't have to offer a warranty lets think what would happen. Main dealers would rent a big field and sell all their P/Ex's to the public or the public would flock to BCA. The independents would have there stock supply cut off over night.

 

We can spend £400-£500 easy on mechanical recon on most cars add our profit onto that and you could be trying to sell a car for £1500 more then is advertised in the Main Dealers 'Part Exchange Field' .

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In my time here at Lawgistics Ltd it has become evident to me that, in the vast majority of cases, consumers expect cars that are many years old, having done many, many thousands of miles and for which they paid very little for, to drive as it was still hot off the manufacturers’ production line.  The buyer has a gross over-expectation of their purchase.

However, If I had bought a washing machine for £20 that was 12 years old from a family with 6 children would I expect it to last in the same way as if was £300, new and from a High Street retailer?  No.  

Would I think that if that £20 washing machine needed a part replaced 5 months later that I had been sold a “dodgy†appliance? No.

As one of our clients stated about consumers, “They expect champagne cars for lemonade moneyâ€.

The CAB state http://goo.gl/VB1zFu  that the most complained about consumer issues is around dodgy second-hand cars, with 6000 used car complaints reported a month. Faults are one of the most common problems.

 

Firstly, I take exception to them stating that their complaints are about "dodgy" cars - how can they say that when, for the most part, they only spend a few minutes speaking to one party and are often not mechanically or legally qualified?

 

Secondly, how do they know that those cars were defective? 

 

I say the most common problem is “wear and tear†– something that buyers seem to conveniently forget the moment they’ve used the mileage and previous use to negotiate a hefty discount.  

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For me so much of it is about preparing the motor for sale. Get it right (and buy right) first will save headaches afterwards. Who wants to be selling some nail with the worry that would go with that? I know I wouldn't.

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11 minutes ago, madonnaluciana said:

everyone should be aware when buying a used car. The reason is the vehicle might be a stolen one or can be in outstanding finance, we don't know the problems till we buy that car. The seller may hide lot of information to sell you the car at a good price for him/her. Don't trust the seller or else you could end up in explaining you used car complaints in a forum like this. This may be funny but losing our hard earned money deeply affects us. Its is really better to check vehicle details online in some sites like hpi, cardotcheck. There a lot of free vehicle check history providers in the market. Perform a vehicle check and avoid discussions in the forums.

not much happening on mumsnet today ?

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6 years & 1 month! I think a new record has been set for resurrecting dead threads. 

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12 minutes ago, BHM said:

6 years & 1 month! I think a new record has been set for resurrecting dead threads. 

:lol: I was only a young lad then 

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3 minutes ago, David Horgan said:

:lol: I was only a young lad then 

I wasn't even allowed a license then .......

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6 hours ago, David Horgan said:

That's just bragging :D

It's about the only thing I can brag about. ;)

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