D&M

Customer 'We'll need to talk about it'

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Hello all,

Got a bit of a strange one from a customer today.

Sold a 2003 Mini Cooper S in early December, new MOT and a PDI. No advisories on the MOT.

We noted, and wrote on the PDI that the car showed signs or repair to the bonnet and bumper - You could see that it had been rubbed down and repainted.

Customer calls today to say they had taken the car to a garage because of a rubbing noise, thought it was the brakes but have been told by the garage that one side of the suspension is sat an inch further back than the other.

We aren't sure exactly at the moment what the customer wants from us. The car isn't on Vcar or a Category car. As I've stated above, the car did show signs of body repair and this was shown to the customer and they accepted and signed that they understood that.

The customer has left it on the phone today that they are going to send us the inspection report from the garage and then we will have to 'talk about it'

This is the same customer who text a couple of days into ownership stating that we 'should have been more honest' as the tax was £305 and not the £245 they thought. They didn't ask us how much the tax was so I don't know how we were supposed to know what they assumed the tax was?! (also the amount the tax was is on the website) - also a cig burn in the seat they didn't see.

We offered them to return the car for a refund then - minus a valeting fee, but they declined - but said that we should have given them the £90 discount they asked for at purchase and we declined.

Has anyone else had this sort of situation? Interested to hear others opinions.

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I would not worry about it.You had it MOT’d at purchase,you then genorously offered a refund on this 15 year old car which they refused.I would email or write to them to return it promptly so that you can recheck it.Ask them because of regulations,to confirm their intentions in writing or email and specifically ask them how far they have driven it since purchase.In my experience,they usually lie about their usage and it helps your case.....Keep us informed !

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7 minutes ago, trade vet said:

I would not worry about it.You had it MOT’d at purchase,you then genorously offered a refund on this 15 year old car which they refused.I would email or write to them to return it promptly so that you can recheck it.Ask them because of regulations,to confirm their intentions in writing or email and specifically ask them how far they have driven it since purchase.In my experience,they usually lie about their usage and it helps your case.....Keep us informed !

TV, what trap are you laying re usage ...do you mean they lie about the miles they have covered.

 

38 minutes ago, D&M said:

Customer calls today to say they had taken the car to a garage because of a rubbing noise, thought it was the brakes but have been told by the garage that one side of the suspension is sat an inch further back than the other.

 

If the car has been accident damaged and not repaired JIGGED geometrically correctly, I would say irrespective of age, mileage or use then I would offer a full refund minus any mileage + costs. Or, offer a geometry check by an independent, but if its straight or within tolerances he pays.....

If the wheels aren't inline the car is dangerous and not fit for purpose... I wouldn't be wanting Trading Standards to get involved, they really don't like dealers selling bent cars.... JMHO

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I also smell carnage in the air, its an odd one for sure clearly the car has had a clout to which you will be getting bills for tyres forever.

 

 

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Firstly, I’m making the assumption the car was straight & you’re not a chancer.

Do nowt until you’ve received something in writing/email & take it from there. At the moment the ball’s in their court.

After 2 months of motoring the customer hears a rubbing sound & then gets it checked out. To my mind the customer has clearly stated to you the alleged problem has only just arisen - you need to get that in writing if the matter progresses. At that point you should be in the clear, forget mileage & all that nonsense, it only takes 6” to smash over a kerb.

From your version of events I smell a penniless chancer who’s had his fun in an old knacker Mini & now can’t afford to run it????

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Just to clarify - we noted on the PDI report about the paintwork on the bonnet and bumper as they looked like they had been rubbed down and repainted. They looked like the original panels and there were no fixings/clips broken to suggest an accident. We are just over-cautious on the PDI's.

There was nothing under the bonnet to suggest an accident either, everything looked straight and true. Radiator/Slam Panel etc. The bonnet panel itself on the Mini is double skinned and you could tell that there hadn't been a bump that had been hammered out.  We assumed it had been painted due to stonechips as there was nothing to suggest otherwise. We did look closely at it due to the paintwork.

We drove the car over 200 miles and it drove as it should, straight and true at all speeds and under braking. MOT brake test was no trouble.

The tyres on it were all matching, and all the same age and were all worn evenly.

Find it a bit strange how if the car wasn't straight has all of a sudden started making a rubbing noise. A gut feeling tells me its pothole or kerb damage from his inexperienced driver wife who was to be the main user of the car.

At the moment, we are just waiting for the report from the garage she took it too.

 

The way they are coming across it seems like they are saying its something underneath. I'm pretty sure he said that one wheel is sitting further back in the wheel arch than the other. Looking through the pictures we took to advertise, they look even to us.

At the moment, we have spoken to the boyfriend who has been called by his wife who took the car to the garage so until the report comes, we're not 100% sure on what the garage have said.

We're going to have a chat with our mechanic tomorrow, as I understand that if the car was out of alignment then the brake imbalance would be out of kilter as the car isn't sat correctly on the road.

12 minutes ago, BHM said:

Firstly, I’m making the assumption the car was straight & you’re not a chancer.

Do nowt until you’ve received something in writing/email & take it from there. At the moment the ball’s in their court.

After 2 months of motoring the customer hears a rubbing sound & then gets it checked out. To my mind the customer has clearly stated to you the alleged problem has only just arisen - you need to get that in writing if the matter progresses. At that point you should be in the clear, forget mileage & all that nonsense, it only takes 6” to smash over a kerb.

From your version of events I smell a penniless chancer who’s had his fun in an old knacker Mini & now can’t afford to run it????

I know everyone is the same, we aren't chancers. If something isn't right then we make it right. If we can't, we don't retail it.

My partner is a stickler for making everything right, so we're confident with what we sell.

Even this Mini, had a naff farty exhaust - he hunted down a good original exhaust and fitted that instead.

Even noting on the PDI that the wheels weren't the original ones for the car, they were from a later model and had kerb marks :rolleyes:

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Hi Arfur.....I am assuming D and M get it re checked at their MOT station and it is OK.The punter will probably still be unhappy and want to take it further.They usually say they have done very few miles since purchase to enhance their case.They usually forget the mileage at purchase is on the MOT or invoice.So when you have a written statement from them stating they have only done 500 miles when in reality they may have done treble that,you might use that as a lever when buying it back or swapping it for something else.......It has worked for me often enough with awkward punters.

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10 minutes ago, D&M said:

Just to clarify - we noted on the PDI report about the paintwork on the bonnet and bumper as they looked like they had been rubbed down and repainted. They looked like the original panels and there were no fixings/clips broken to suggest an accident. We are just over-cautious on the PDI's.

There was nothing under the bonnet to suggest an accident either, everything looked straight and true. Radiator/Slam Panel etc. The bonnet panel itself on the Mini is double skinned and you could tell that there hadn't been a bump that had been hammered out.  We assumed it had been painted due to stonechips as there was nothing to suggest otherwise. We did look closely at it due to the paintwork.

We drove the car over 200 miles and it drove as it should, straight and true at all speeds and under braking. MOT brake test was no trouble.

The tyres on it were all matching, and all the same age and were all worn evenly.

Find it a bit strange how if the car wasn't straight has all of a sudden started making a rubbing noise. A gut feeling tells me its pothole or kerb damage from his inexperienced driver wife who was to be the main user of the car.

At the moment, we are just waiting for the report from the garage she took it too.

 

The way they are coming across it seems like they are saying its something underneath. I'm pretty sure he said that one wheel is sitting further back in the wheel arch than the other. Looking through the pictures we took to advertise, they look even to us.

At the moment, we have spoken to the boyfriend who has been called by his wife who took the car to the garage so until the report comes, we're not 100% sure on what the garage have said.

We're going to have a chat with our mechanic tomorrow, as I understand that if the car was out of alignment then the brake imbalance would be out of kilter as the car isn't sat correctly on the road.

I know everyone is the same, we aren't chancers. If something isn't right then we make it right. If we can't, we don't retail it.

My partner is a stickler for making everything right, so we're confident with what we sell.

Even this Mini, had a naff farty exhaust - he hunted down a good original exhaust and fitted that instead.

Even noting on the PDI that the wheels weren't the original ones for the car, they were from a later model and had kerb marks :rolleyes:

Sounds like you’ve been thorough in your pre delivery checks and MOT’d it too. 

As someone has already said, making looming comments such as ‘then we’ll have to chat about it’ would piss me off wanting to just deal with it there and then, not be at the mercy of some report.

Sounds like someone’s hit a pot hole or they just don’t want it anymore, I’d want it back to Inspect in our workshop/our mechanic, great that you’ve got pictures from point of sale.

christ they’ve had it over two months, what do they want? You to hold their hand with it? Yes, find out what mileage they’ve covered in it.

if they start getting arsey I’d offer to buy it back minus mileage, can’t be dealing with the hassle these days and would rather put it right and sell it to someone decent. That, or depending on the result of your own inspection make clear it was fine at point of purchase and hold your ground/make a contribution towards repair/parts.

 

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Thanks, we have been thorough with the PDI and take loads of photos. We use the Lawgistics PDI and sales receipts.

We're quite new to the game, trading since April 17, so I think we might be scaring ourselves. We don't like unhappy customers, and we've had very, very few comebacks. Including this one, its 4 out of 80 cars. 2 of those were just moaners who we offered a little £ to go away.

I'm sure they'll be in touch tomorrow so will get all the info then and see where we stand.

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Yes, good to be conscientious like you are. It’ll set you in good stead, sounds like you’re doing it properly from day one.

keep us informed, there’s many wise heads that can offer their experience, but ultimately it’s down to you.

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6 minutes ago, D&M said:

We're quite new to the game, trading since April 17, so I think we might be scaring ourselves.

I remember when I was like this...

Sounds like you've been very diligent at the beginning and fair since. No reason to be worried. you've done more than I would have. Worst case you refund and don't stock heavily accident damaged stuff again. Best case it all gets sorted happily. Somewhere in between is most often the outcome.

Most importantly is what you'll take away from it. I've only been doing it 3 1/2 years and the learning curve sure is steep.

Had one refund, two threatening court, one needing an engine rebuild, one clutch and seven warranty claims so far this month and we're only on the 20th (it has been a shocking month tbf) but you soon grow a thick skin and learn that having a complaints procedure takes away a lot of the panicking. ( I don't sell old sheds by the way boys...just been one of those hateful fortnights!)

 

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1 hour ago, D&M said:

Hello all,

Got a bit of a strange one from a customer today.

Sold a 2003 Mini Cooper S in early December, new MOT and a PDI. No advisories on the MOT.

We noted, and wrote on the PDI that the car showed signs or repair to the bonnet and bumper - You could see that it had been rubbed down and repainted.

Customer calls today to say they had taken the car to a garage because of a rubbing noise, thought it was the brakes but have been told by the garage that one side of the suspension is sat an inch further back than the other.

We aren't sure exactly at the moment what the customer wants from us. The car isn't on Vcar or a Category car. As I've stated above, the car did show signs of body repair and this was shown to the customer and they accepted and signed that they understood that.

The customer has left it on the phone today that they are going to send us the inspection report from the garage and then we will have to 'talk about it'

This is the same customer who text a couple of days into ownership stating that we 'should have been more honest' as the tax was £305 and not the £245 they thought. They didn't ask us how much the tax was so I don't know how we were supposed to know what they assumed the tax was?! (also the amount the tax was is on the website) - also a cig burn in the seat they didn't see.

We offered them to return the car for a refund then - minus a valeting fee, but they declined - but said that we should have given them the £90 discount they asked for at purchase and we declined.

Has anyone else had this sort of situation? Interested to hear others opinions.

D&M, I wasn't meaning you sold a bent car, we can all do are best checks and get caught out :) 

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22 minutes ago, Arfur Dealy said:

D&M, I wasn't meaning you sold a bent car, we can all do are best checks and get caught out :) 

No, of course not. Wasn't taken that way!

Very difficult to read a 'tone' over written text - No offence meant, and no offence taken!

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2 minutes ago, D&M said:

No, of course not. Wasn't taken that way!

Very difficult to read a 'tone' over written text - No offence meant, and no offence taken!

;) its really hard when you get an accusation made when they have taken it elsewhere.... Its like a blackmail threat... we could all be jumping the gun with advice, but until you know yourself exactly what the issue is ( if any ) you can't do anything....

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Obviously you need more facts but I don't think, in the case of further action, that noting the bumper and bonnet has been repaired/ resprayed would get you out of hot water. Argument being a respray on a bumper and bonnet is not the same as indicating the vehicle has been in a collision.

If it's not crash damaged then considering the length of use and the fact the rubbing wasn't present at the time of sale they could do one! Chat about that :lol:

If it were me it'd be a case of get it back and get the opinion of our repairer.

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I dont think I have ever seen a straight 15 year old Cooper S. 

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Just remembered after writing about the text message we got complaining about the cig burn and car tax.

The buyer wrote in that text that they had taken the car to a mechanic to be looked over after purchase and the car is 'a very high standard for it's age'

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13 minutes ago, D&M said:

Just remembered after writing about the text message we got complaining about the cig burn and car tax.

The buyer wrote in that text that they had taken the car to a mechanic to be looked over after purchase and the car is 'a very high standard for it's age'

The defence rests.....

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It’ll be interesting to see if the alleged inspection report materialises. I’ve never seen one in my life - punters will normally say anything & the once I saw “something” in writing it was clearly by a friend & one phone call to the garage on the letterhead confirmed it.

Why oh why are you wasting time PDIing 15yr old bangers? (Sorry, but a 15yr old Mini is a banger in my book). They’re clearly of little use to you because whether or not you have PDIed them it doesn’t stop a punter complaining. 

You can do as much prep as you want but a bellend customer will always be a bellend and you can’t PDI your way out of that.

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Customer picked a rubbing noise after 2 months, i would ask the customer to bring the in so we can investigate and repair if required. Some customers never tell you its their fault. For example the road tax issue, it's up to them to do them their homework before they commit. Its also been 2 months not within 30 days.... . you have been more than fair to them for offering a refund after 2 months, i would never do that, we do our own warranties, it states in the warranty booklet that if an issue arises it's down to the customer to get the car to us so we can repair it (we always point that out to the customer on handover as well).

We had an issue about a year ago where a guy bought a Nissan Note from us 6 weeks later he said he was getting a loud noise coming from the front of the car and it didn't sound like coming from the engine, we asked him to get the car to us so we can have a look, asked him not to drive it, he said he had breakdown cover so he will use that, next morning had a phone call from him saying he nearly got killed because one of the front wheels had come off. Said to him we told you not to drive the car until it was inspected, he said the breakdown recovery was going to be too long so i decided to drive it to us. He then makes a claim that it was our fault that the wheel came off and he could of been killed. In the end turned out he had done 3500 miles in 6 weeks. So our question to him was why has the wheel not come off any earlier?  He has obviously had some work done or someone has left his wheel nuts loose. Our legal advisors we are not liable. Told the customer that, never heard a thing after. He did leave a 5 star review on yell. com after a week purchasing the car which he didn't remove.  

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Takes hardly any effort to bend a strut hitting a pot hole or a kerb, particularly in a stiff sporty car.

Someone that is this much of a pain wouldhave let you know about it far sooner had there actually been a problem with the car.

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Have spoken to the customer this morning.

Current mileage is 92something.... Was sold with 88,500

In their ownership, they have already replaced 1 tyre (when sold, car had 4 matching tyres, on Manheim report the fronts were 3.5mm and the rears 6mm) - unsure why it was replaced.

The rubbing noise is coming from the drivers front wheel when reversing on right hand full lock and started to happen 2-4 weeks ago.

Yesterday, she smashed it into a pothole and has done some damage to the passenger side front suspension too.

So she is getting her trusted mechanic to look at the car, as the garage she took it to yesterday she doesn't trust (whether that's because of this report or not, I don't know).

So they'll call me later on - she is under the impression that if there is a problem then she'll be swapped into a different car of ours.

How that stands with her damaging the car on the other side, I'm not sure.

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Sounds to me like the rubbing noise has been caused by their own doing...

As someone has previously mentioned, smacks of a penniless punter, who doesn't want to put their hand in their pocket and maintain THEIR car. 

I would be standing VERY firm with them, assuming everything has happened as you've stated.

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