Vic

Adise needed for a private sale

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I bought a BMW 2003 320d in october 2017 from another trader so never filled out the logbook as it was bought into my trade as the previous trader had sent of the yellow slip which his details tot he dvla.  I was using the car for personal use as a run around and after 5 months of use i decided to sell the car as i no longer needed it. Due to high mileage and age which was over 15 years old i decided to put it up on ebay as an auction so sold it from my private ebay account not disclosing anywhere in the advert that i am a dealer nor implying any warranty on the car. 

The winning bidder came and bought the car. He inspected the car, took it for a test drive and was happy with it. He drove the car home which was over 150 miles from where he came. Now after about 5 weeks of purchasing the car he sent me a letter stating the car has a severe head gasket problem and will cost £2000 to repair at BMW and wants me to pay for the costs or take the car back. The car was still running strong despite high mileage and i'm surprised the head gasket would have failed. He just sent me a letter stating under the sale of goods act 1979 i sold him a car which didnt match the description as in the advert i wrote car has no problems. The buyer only got to find out i am a vehicle trader when we we chatting whilst completing the paperwork and it told him my full time profession is a vehicle trader but this is my personal vehicle hence selling it sold as seen hence why i am selling from home and now my business premises.

Over the time i owner the car it perfectly fine so i'm asking other fellow traders where do i stand? I sold it as a private sale, from my home address and didnt give any company invoice neither any warranty. Just filled out a AA car sellers contract which clearly states the vehicle is sold as seen, tried an approved by the purchaser. Should i bother replying back to his letter?

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If the letter was sent normal post, just ignore his letter, I would not even acknowledge it.. there's only one outcome to this, yep you guessed it.. you forking out money.

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If he takes this all the way, and I am in no doubt he will if you ignore him or fail to contribute, you will be screwed. how can you try to sell it privately and hope to get away with it? And how can the paperwork give it away if you never registered it to you? if you are a motor trader, you have to behave like one, dont cut corners. No wonder the General Public thinks we are all t***s with behaviour like this

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If hes quoting sale of goods act 79 he has not even bothered googling the matter for starters.

I spent a lot of time learning the rights and wrongs in this business and understanding consumer law better than my customers for both of our benefits. It pays to keep on top of it.

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I genuinely would never sell a car if to my attention has a problem and that to from my home doorstep. The buyer clearly knew its my personal car that ive have been driving. With all my cars that i sell from my business premises we always stick on a 6 month warranty as standard with WMS for the customers peace of mind. Usually all over our cars we sell are well under 10 years old and under 100,000 miles. The issue with the BMW i sold was that first it was over 15 years old and had done 175,000 miles and there is no way WMS would let me stick a suitable warranty product on that car hence the reason why i sold it on an ebay auction and i made it very clear to the person buying it that there is no warranty whatsoever with this car and never provided any of my company paperwork to him. 

The letter he sent me was via special delivery and he is using the sale of goods act 1979 instead of the consumer rights act 2015 which would generally be the case buying from a trader. He hasnt addressed it to anyone, just my home address as he doesnt know my company details. 

Edited by Vic

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43 minutes ago, Vic said:

I genuinely would never sell a car if to my attention has a problem and that to from my home doorstep. The buyer clearly knew its my personal car that ive have been driving. With all my cars that i sell from my business premises we always stick on a 6 month warranty as standard with WMS for the customers peace of mind. Usually all over our cars we sell are well under 10 years old and under 100,000 miles. The issue with the BMW i sold was that first it was over 15 years old and had done 175,000 miles and there is no way WMS would let me stick a suitable warranty product on that car hence the reason why i sold it on an ebay auction and i made it very clear to the person buying it that there is no warranty whatsoever with this car and never provided any of my company paperwork to him. 

The letter he sent me was via special delivery and he is using the sale of goods act 1979 instead of the consumer rights act 2015 which would generally be the case buying from a trader. He hasnt addressed it to anyone, just my home address as he doesnt know my company details. 

You’ve sold a car out of the trade. You’re a trader. You told him you are. 

I think you’re on the wrong side of things here. Had you put the car in your name and sold it on then i’d say you’d be fine but ultimately you’ve bought a car, used it as a smoker and sold it on. It’s a trade vehicle sold by a trader. 

 

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Without fail it’s pretty much always a German car punter!

(I have one at the minute (BMW) a month and a half out of warranty, trying to get me to pay for various consumable bits at BMW Main Dealer.)

Taking an old car to a Main Dealer is pathetic and insane.

I think all you can do is exercise your right to inspect at this stage and, if there is a problem, look to offering him some goodwill or, if he pushes it, fix it or have your day in court  

Did you do do a Pdi sheet, Mot, service etc?

Proof that it didn’t have a fault at time of sale is paramount and is your responsibility to prove. 

You can’t dodge your trader responsibilities I’m afraid. The court will not be interested in you trying to say it was a personal car. 

 

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11 minutes ago, EPV said:

You’ve sold a car out of the trade. You’re a trader. You told him you are. 

I think you’re on the wrong side of things here. Had you put the car in your name and sold it on then i’d say you’d be fine but ultimately you’ve bought a car, used it as a smoker and sold it on. It’s a trade vehicle sold by a trader. 

This is correct.

I wish we could private sale our duff cars.

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Might start doing this with our knackered px's

call it shitters r us.

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(Poor Vic is assuming that just because a punter says they understand something and are happy with the terms offered,-and often negotiate based on it- that they aren’t reneging have-their-cake-and-eat-it liars quite often.

Like the old chestnut of when they want a ‘trade sale’!

You can bet your house on them coming back if there’s a problem or issue and they have no morals or cares about going back on their word or a handshake.)

As we’ve constantly harped on about on here: you have to cover your arse in triplicate. Even then, they’ll try it on no matter how well you do the job and with all the best intentions in the world. 

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Your customer sounds like a chancer - he won’t be paying BMW main dealer rates on an old knacker!

I think the problem here is you didn’t register it and the car was ‘in trade’. Others may disagree  but I see this as no different to every trade car you own. Others may disagree?

My understanding of private sales from business advertisements are that the advertisement must clearly state it’s a private sale & then the invoice must have no reference whatsoever to the business name. The owner’s name should be on the invoice and any of the usual sold as seen etc. applies.

Oddly enough I’ve got two of the family’s cars (one my own) to advertise - no funny games, just time for changing. My plan is to clearly state these are private sales of my own cars, and the buyers will be getting a private “sold as seen” invoice. I believe this to be the correct way.

Tbh years ago I had a BMW buyer threatening me with a £1600 bill for a head gasket on a 318 petrol. I wrote to him fully itemising the job at a backstreet garage - I think the quote came to about £360. 

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The issue here is the log book, for a private sale you should have the V5 in your name. If it does go further then it could be classed as a trade sale. Either ignore him or come to some sort of settlement maybe?

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Welcome Vic :)  Personally, I don't think you have a leg to stand on. You should have registered the car in your name and very clearly stated its a private sale. Look at it from his point of view, all he see's is you declared yourself as a "Motor Trader" and within a few weeks needs a big repair. I can't understand your naivety........

I wouldn't ignore the letter, ring him and reiterate it "was" your car, test the waters and see his stance............. 

 

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The bottom line is.....you cannot masquerade as a private seller.You need to nip this in the bud or your looking at full refund plus consequential damages and costs etc......It could get worse,he could ring the HMRC fraud line,they could then technically assess you for a lot of money and you have to prove otherwise.I have seen it happen.

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11 minutes ago, Mojo121 said:

What sort of mileage and money are we talking about here?

 I think I read 175,000. You guys got to have big balls to sell that sort of gear.

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do the job properly or leave it to us big boys that know what we are doing (most of the time:D)

message ends..............

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6 minutes ago, Screenman said:

 I think I read 175,000. You guys got to have big balls to sell that sort of gear.

Ahh, thanks. Can see that now.

I mean, it's clear the whole trader/ not a trader thing is a bit dodgy, but it would seem harsh that we would have to stand by a leggy old smoker after a month - a month of guarantee against major failure would seem reasonable, in my book. Sadly it's not my book though - it's the CRA. The irony is legally, with proper PDI and invoicing, you could have avoided this by selling it through the business.

I think in your original post you're asking whether he'll just go away... he may, he may not. Depending on what you sold the car for I'd give him a call, sound him out and work towards a get it back and check, offer a contribution or see if he's trying it on.

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As said by most people i dont have a leg to stand on. I didnt do this intentionally knowing that the car had a fault. I dont even know if the car has a fault infact as the buyer is claiming. I will be in touch with the buyer to ask for proof of a diagnostic report to confirm the car actually has a fault and look to resolve this. i was under the impression that it was a car that i was using privately as a run around for a short period and hence just wanted to sell it cheap hence put it up as a private sale on the auction as i knew there probably isnt much life left in the car so whoever is buying a 175,000 mile car will buy it with the risks associated with the mileage. I have never otherwise sold a vehicle like this privately and as the car was only £500 i wouldnt have sold it from my premises where most cars are £5-7k upwards. |It quite alarming him claiming £2000 to repair the head gasket for a £500 car.

 

38 minutes ago, have a word with the wife said:

what and you signed for it ?:lol:

I didnt sign for it. My mum did but it wasn't addressed to anyone. Just had my address with no name whatsoever.

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£500?!

Wow. What a w***er!

A) Demand he returns it for inspection at a garage of your choice.

B ) Give him his money back (minus 25p a mile) . Not worth thinking about-you’re not likely to do a head gasket. Put it up for spares or repair auction; or let him do his worse I say!

Edited by NOACROSS

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Yep. Take it back less any usage and sell as is you will end up with more than you started with 

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