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Arfur Dealy

September......

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7 minutes ago, NOACROSS said:

I don’t think cars really have many issues nowadays within the warranty periods on the whole. Or, at least that’s my experience over the last five/six years. Especially if you prep right and buy right. 

How’s your week progresssed T.V? Any further forward?  

I think you should start a new thread on your venture. We’re all very invested/ cheering you on!

Indeed we are. 

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21 minutes ago, NOACROSS said:

A clutch is not a wear and tear item. Unless the non-frictin parts fail.

I can assure you, my wife-for example could ruin a clutch within a week should she wish.  

If I tried, I could screw it up within an hour. Driving style.

(A lovely old lady used to buy a Micra off me every few years. A clutch would last six months if we were lucky.

Her son came in all ‘juiced up for a fight’ initially. After calming him down we went out for a drive with the old dear: I’ve never felt so sorry for a car in my life! Neither had he. Who drives a car with the clutch being ridden the whole time!?)

It’s spelled out really clearly at sale and handover that certain items aren’t covered. We make a point of highlighting that clutches and brakes/exhausts, for example are not covered- and hence the need for a new no-advisory MOT, service and customer signed Pdi. 

Same here. Very depressing month after a great August. Hopefully October will bounce back. 

Up to 11 so far :) 

BTW, every part is into fair wear n tear when it is out of manufacturers warranty.. If the manufacturer won't guarantee it lifespan how the hell can we be liable. 

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Back on the subject of September (or would I rather not go there?)....my god what a stinker so far. Good first week but since then it's been dire. No enquiries, no leads, no footfall and no sales. Bloody awful. I got so fed up today I moved the entire pitch on the sales guys day off, 50 cars shifted and I smashed my head on the same punto door twice...god knows why they made the corner so sharp!?!? 

On warranties we do 3 months/3000 miles, new/long MOT, oil & filter. I'd consider it pretty standard pitch cover with a Lawgistics booklet and £100 per unit dropped into the pot. Goes down well and helps sell. Not too many claims as the booklet is pretty comprehensive and we have some very clear and stern terms on our invoices. 

Three this week though...my first head gasket in four years, a weird (read expensive) injector on another and a gearbox. Plus a refund on a knackered Zafira...always hits you when it's quiet eh!

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12 minutes ago, Arfur Dealy said:

If the manufacturer won't guarantee it lifespan how the hell can we be liable. 

The manufacturer has the first and their only one bite of the cherry. We are dealers, we add value, reassurance and some come back, otherwise, why exist.

We make money on each sale and it is fair that we have to pay some of that back due to failure.

I win on most, break even on some and lose on others.  If at year end I’ve earned a wage and covered my ex’s I will never complain and even lose money to honour what I consider my obligations.

No, I’m not a millionaire but I sleep well and people like buying from me because they think they can trust me and they can.

 

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13 minutes ago, grant8064 said:

Three this week though...my first head gasket in four years, a weird (read expensive) injector on another and a gearbox. Plus a refund on a knackered Zafira...always hits you when it's quiet eh!

So true! It's a quiet-ish month for us, after a brilliant August and summer in whole.

I was thinking last week I've been lucky so far this year with only 2 warranty claims... And then I got hit with 3 in one day! 

Also struggling to buy anything these last 2 weeks, prices are on the up?

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4 hours ago, Rory RSC said:

EPV I think the no warranty thing is a terrible decision. You are a smart switched on guy but its not the way to boost consumer confidence.

I only pay for stuff that I am meant to on our warranties and not complete stupid wear and tear stuff but like Mark we take enough out of them, do enough units that don't come back t deal with the few that do. 

A lot of these folk you help on minor issues are ungrateful and you don't get so much as a thanks but  a good few years further down the line plenty of friends of customers who had warranty claim, family, and the original buyer are coming back to us. Eyes on the long game.

You know that a PDI shows everything works today is fine. You also know 5 days later if something packs in your are going to pay for it, play the game call it a warranty ( your own in house or administered ones not warrantywise / autoprotect rubbish).

Mate, you know I respect your opinion more than most on here and maybe I am wrong but I cannot get my head around why I should be insuring 8/9/10 year old cars against mechanical failure for 3 months or more. I have to, as a retailer, provide something fit for purpose, as described and of satisfactory quality. I do that, each time,

As for giving confidence to punters, I show them the car they are buying, 80 hd images, full walkround of the car inside, out, documents and keys, take the thing for a drive, show them the engine. They can look at my reviews and see 20+ five star reviews from genuine punters. 

If this doesn’t inspire confidence in people looking at my cars I don’t know what will. 

I feel like I do a lot for my margin, fix things that need fixing, mop scratches, proper valets, thoroughly check cars mechanically etc. I don’t feel like I want to wipe their arses as well when something beyond my control goes wrong. That’s life, it’s a used car, sometimes they go wrong. 

Max Brannings post has been quite thought provoking for me. I’m thinking there must be something I can do for punters, to make them fell like they’re not going to end up being taken on, sold a pup, yet also getting them to realise I won’t wipe their arse for them just because they think I ought to. 

There’s definitely some common ground between “sold as seen” and insuring the punters against spending any money on their own cars. 

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This is a tough subject. This is my take on it and it is a simple one:

Its horses for corses. What works for one company may not work for someone else. Each to their own.

I do my own in house 3 month warranties and have done for 10 years. Every now and again I have to do a warranty job but as the cars are prepped to a high standard, it doesnt bother me at all if i have to dip into my warranty pot.

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26 minutes ago, NOACROSS said:

I don’t think cars really have many issues nowadays within the warranty periods on the whole. Or, at least that’s my experience over the last five/six years. Especially if you prep right and buy right. 

How’s your week progresssed T.V? Any further forward?  

I think you should start a new thread on your venture. We’re all very invested/ cheering you on!

Not much happened this week,the new signs have been delayed by high winds,the website is not ready and NAT West are stalling with our new proposed faster payment account.Bought a few to help get us going.Star buy....I was at the local block and a ‘faded’ 61 Jag XF 2.2 Auto with cream leather but no nav comes through as a rerun from last week.Auctioneer says it’s done 9k but no history.Anyway I have only one bid at £93 and the hammer comes down.I thought ‘O dear’ what have I done.Picked it up the next day,it’s one local owner,it is 9k miles,smooth driver and just needs minting up and we are getting the history from the local Jag Dealer.What a relief.

We are about 10 days away from trading,but I will do a warts and all running commentary until I am told to stop.

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1 minute ago, Mark101 said:

The manufacturer has the first and their only one bite of the cherry. We are dealers, we add value, reassurance and some come back, otherwise, why exist.

We make money on each sale and it is fair that we have to pay some of that back due to failure.

I win on most, break even on some and lose on others.  If at year end I’ve earned a wage and covered my ex’s I will never complain and even lose money to honour what I consider my obligations.

No, I’m not a millionaire but I sleep well and people like buying from me because they think they can trust me and they can.

 

Mark, I add value by prepairing the car.........Painting, valeting, freshly MOTing, Servicing and PDIing. Making the car right when it goes out. 

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30 minutes ago, EPV said:

 

30 minutes ago, EPV said:

 

30 minutes ago, EPV said:

 

1 hour ago, NOACROSS said:

 

James/Simon i am of exactly the same opinion as yourselves. I know the car was right going out so how can i be responsible for any maintenance costs thereafter. I have sold cars in the past to persons that i known have ragged the arses off them once bought, i just wish that the law surrounding this game was clear and not as grey as it is. Makes things so difficult, people wouldn't buy a ten year old telly surely? 

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9 hours ago, Dealer said:

James/Simon i am of exactly the same opinion as yourselves. I know the car was right going out so how can i be responsible for any maintenance costs thereafter. I have sold cars in the past to persons that i known have ragged the arses off them once bought, i just wish that the law surrounding this game was clear and not as grey as it is. Makes things so difficult, people wouldn't buy a ten year old telly surely? 

We all see things differently I suppose, but for me we all talk about performing a new advisory free MOT, at least a basic if not full service, a full PDI, a valet, a handover etc etc.

Therefore IMO (except the sold as seen customers, or issues noted on PDI), I think it is fair to say that save for checking the oil and fuelling, a customer should not expect to have to put his or her hand in their pocket for repairs OR maintenance for 3 months/3,000 miles (my warranty period).

for example, I wouldn’t send a car out with brakes not expected to last 3,000 miles, or an overdue/imminently due timing belt, water pump and tensioner. 

Caveat for me being failure caused by obvious misuse (hard to prove) or accident damage. Or a customer who refused to pay my retail price and as James EPV would say wanted the moon on a stick (I use that a lot now).

I’m talking about normal everyday genuine customers, who turn up, like the car, like me, pay my price and drive off happy - they’re covered, no questions, no quibble - bring it back for us to inspect.

Edited by Mark101

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In response to the initial question, the job started strong for me in September but has gone quiet this last week. Overall been a very good year up to now though.

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14 minutes ago, Mark101 said:

We all see things differently I suppose, but for me we all talk about performing a new advisory free MOT, at least a basic if not full service, a full PDI, a valet, a handover etc etc.

Therefore IMO (except the sold as seen customers, or issues noted on PDI), I think it is fair to say that save for checking the oil and fuelling, a customer should not expect to have to put his or her hand in their pocket for repairs OR maintenance for 3 months/3,000 miles (my warranty period).

for example, I wouldn’t send a car out with brakes not expected to last 3,000 miles, or an overdue/imminently due timing belt, water pump and tensioner. 

Caveat for me being failure caused by obvious misuse (hard to prove) or accident damage. Or a customer who refused to pay my retail price and as James EPV would say wanted the moon on a stick (I use that a lot now).

I’m talking about normal everyday genuine customers, who turn up, like the car, like me, pay my price and drive off happy - they’re covered, no questions, no quibble - bring it back for us to inspect.

And I think every day normal punters would be looked after by most on here mate and a warranty wouldn’t change that  either way. 

Here’s a few examples for a bit of fun, of instances i’ve had of post sale issues. What would you lot do in these examples? All of these examples have had a proper prep and mechanical check, PDI to you and me.

1. 2004 bmw 545i, 93,000 Miles. 6 weeks and 1,000 miles following sale, punter rings wanting to claim on warranty for a water pump and oil leak “somewhere” now assuming it’s genuine, would you pay for this? 

2. 2010 bmw 318i Tourer, 59,000 Miles. 2 month and 1500 miles later, customer calls saying he needs to make a warranty claim as the low oil pressure light is on and eml flashing with a misfire. Let’s say it was diagnosed as an coil and a sensor for the oil pressure. Would you pay for this?

3. 2008 Range Rover Sport, 93,000 Miles. 10 days and 500 miles later, customer calls saying there’s a bad oil leak. Turns out its a new sump plug and job done. Would you pay for this? 

Note, all of these items are wear and tear. Meaning, something has been used, it’s worn, it’s failed. The manufacturer won’t want to know, their warranty expired years ago. I’m wondering, if you WOULD pay for these repairs, why? 

 

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20 minutes ago, EPV said:

And I think every day normal punters would be looked after by most on here mate and a warranty wouldn’t change that  either way. 

Here’s a few examples for a bit of fun, of instances i’ve had of post sale issues. What would you lot do in these examples? All of these examples have had a proper prep and mechanical check, PDI to you and me.

1. 2004 bmw 545i, 93,000 Miles. 6 weeks and 1,000 miles following sale, punter rings wanting to claim on warranty for a water pump and oil leak “somewhere” now assuming it’s genuine, would you pay for this? 

2. 2010 bmw 318i Tourer, 59,000 Miles. 2 month and 1500 miles later, customer calls saying he needs to make a warranty claim as the low oil pressure light is on and eml flashing with a misfire. Let’s say it was diagnosed as an coil and a sensor for the oil pressure. Would you pay for this?

3. 2008 Range Rover Sport, 93,000 Miles. 10 days and 500 miles later, customer calls saying there’s a bad oil leak. Turns out its a new sump plug and job done. Would you pay for this? 

Note, all of these items are wear and tear. Meaning, something has been used, it’s worn, it’s failed. The manufacturer won’t want to know, their warranty expired years ago. I’m wondering, if you WOULD pay for these repairs, why? 

 

But James, in their eyes they've bought a "new" car. I can see why the above scenarios on cars that are between 9 and 14 years old can be classed as normal wearable items, who knows when a coil pack will go down, the oil leak one is possibly something i would be happy to look at as it's a very short time after purchase. I think it's also perhaps different for me and you as we have no mechanics facilities on site and have to send everything out, this costs! For guys here who have a mechanic/odd job man or facilities on site then that person's wages are being paid anyway so perhaps they look at it differently. 

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22 minutes ago, EPV said:

And I think every day normal punters would be looked after by most on here mate and a warranty wouldn’t change that  either way. 

Here’s a few examples for a bit of fun, of instances i’ve had of post sale issues. What would you lot do in these examples? All of these examples have had a proper prep and mechanical check, PDI to you and me.

1. 2004 bmw 545i, 93,000 Miles. 6 weeks and 1,000 miles following sale, punter rings wanting to claim on warranty for a water pump and oil leak “somewhere” now assuming it’s genuine, would you pay for this? 

2. 2010 bmw 318i Tourer, 59,000 Miles. 2 month and 1500 miles later, customer calls saying he needs to make a warranty claim as the low oil pressure light is on and eml flashing with a misfire. Let’s say it was diagnosed as an coil and a sensor for the oil pressure. Would you pay for this?

3. 2008 Range Rover Sport, 93,000 Miles. 10 days and 500 miles later, customer calls saying there’s a bad oil leak. Turns out its a new sump plug and job done. Would you pay for this? 

Note, all of these items are wear and tear. Meaning, something has been used, it’s worn, it’s failed. The manufacturer won’t want to know, their warranty expired years ago. I’m wondering, if you WOULD pay for these repairs, why? 

 

I would not want to retail 1) and 3). too risky. but 2) is different,I would be helping the punter.If you are going to deal in heavy old stuff,expect to take some big hits.

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2 minutes ago, trade vet said:

I would not want to retail 1) and 3). too risky. but 2) is different,I would be helping the punter.If you are going to deal in heavy old stuff,expect to take some big hits.

It’s theoretical mate, not everyone would deal in this stuff I know, it’s just a what if, for a bit of sport. 

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12 hours ago, trade vet said:

I think if you work on your own or you are a home trader,when you have a problem,punters are more flexible and don’t expect a warranty.However with a pitch,staff and workshops etc  and you are doing 500 or more per year,your punters expect warranties.Long ago,we began administering our own FREE 12 month 12000 mile warranty or mechanical breakdown agreement as we call it.We started by putting £70 per sale in a separate account.The fund mounted up very quickly and from then on we treated claims as an investment.The outcome was that we then did a lot more repeat business.Most people do appreciate that if they break down or have a problem miles away from home and with one call you can sort it out for them.Some of the claims would be suspect,but we just paid them.

Nowadays main dealers offer service contracts which are charged monthly and are a good source of extra income.With our new venture we are exploring a similar thing with warranties and free future MOTs and few other things.Our theory is that a good proportion of punters taking out our ‘ customer care pack’  but who will have the option to cancel at any time,will instead let them run on......I think I can sense the doorsteppers reading this with negative thoughts !

Trade vet this is something I have been exploring  with my own extended warranties - One sales company called 'Car Time' seem to be doing very well with this sort of thing with MOT and service plans being taken up by a big chunk If we have our own workshop and the customers like us why not. Big, big profits + upsell potential here if you get it right and its playing the long game for when margins are squeezed ever further. 

I always keep an open mind and upon reflection on the warranty topic I think BHM said something along the lines of shiny suited salesmen promising the world who don't know when they are bullshitting have a lot to answer for. If you can sell a car to a customer and have them leaving happy and thinking they have no warranty then to be fair you have been completely honest, they know what they are getting and well done to you. 

I just think for the total cost of warranty claims that I get and the fact I can offer that hand holding in the scary daunting car buying experience and the comeback and reassurance I will fix things it allows me to sell more cars and show strong confidence in not dropping on price giving me more profit overall.  I pay out on things that I am not technically responsible for. If I followed CRA to a tee I know my warranty pot would have a lot more in it than it does, but would I be selling as many? Would I enjoy my reputation? Would I be able to charge what I charge?  Who knows. 

One thing I will say is despite looking after people, treating them nicely and offering good warranty service it is incredibly rare I get so much as a thank you.

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29 minutes ago, EPV said:

It’s theoretical mate, not everyone would deal in this stuff I know, it’s just a what if, for a bit of sport. 

In those examples i would be inclined to offer to help out in some way, maybe not full cost but would ask for a copy of repair bill from a vat registered garage to be emailed to me. I would then decide if works and price was reasonable and offer compo from there. 

Just putting the shutters down and saying wear and tear just leads to grudges and ultimately bad reviews...for the chaps who are building there businesses on the back of online videos etc reviews are essential so keeping a few people happy will pay dividends me thinks...

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4 minutes ago, EPV said:

It’s theoretical mate, not everyone would deal in this stuff I know, it’s just a what if, for a bit of sport. 

I don’t know about sport !,but until motor dealers end up in the small claims court failing to defend some dubious claim for £4K on an old Range Rover or similar (because the judge interprets CRA differently),they may then want to change their business model.If you run a pitch,the risk reward ratio with retailing older stuff is a lot higher with the introduction of CRA.However,this does not appear to be the case with home traders,good luck to them.

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3 hours ago, Rory RSC said:

Trade vet this is something I have been exploring  with my own extended warranties - One sales company called 'Car Time' seem to be doing very well with this sort of thing with MOT and service plans being taken up by a big chunk If we have our own workshop and the customers like us why not. Big, big profits + upsell potential here if you get it right and its playing the long game for when margins are squeezed ever further. 

I always keep an open mind and upon reflection on the warranty topic I think BHM said something along the lines of shiny suited salesmen promising the world who don't know when they are bullshitting have a lot to answer for. If you can sell a car to a customer and have them leaving happy and thinking they have no warranty then to be fair you have been completely honest, they know what they are getting and well done to you. 

I just think for the total cost of warranty claims that I get and the fact I can offer that hand holding in the scary daunting car buying experience and the comeback and reassurance I will fix things it allows me to sell more cars and show strong confidence in not dropping on price giving me more profit overall.  I pay out on things that I am not technically responsible for. If I followed CRA to a tee I know my warranty pot would have a lot more in it than it does, but would I be selling as many? Would I enjoy my reputation? Would I be able to charge what I charge?  Who knows. 

One thing I will say is despite looking after people, treating them nicely and offering good warranty service it is incredibly rare I get so much as a thank you.

No you never get any thanks.Except when someone you have helped previously has then bought elsewhere but then returned for another car having had issues with both the dealer and the warranty company.

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15 hours ago, DHill said:

 

Also struggling to buy anything these last 2 weeks, prices are on the up?

Definitely, so someone must be selling. 

Im paying more now than I was 18 months ago for the same cars.

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13 minutes ago, Lakeside said:

Im paying more now than I was 18 months ago for the same cars.

I bought a 2009 Prius T Spirit the other day, 95K miles, Cap Clean £6600. The exact same car in 2016 would've booked at around £5.5K at those miles. 

Petrol and especially Hybrid prices have become stupid high so I've switched to buying diesels. Great bargains to be had, thankfully I don't aim for the local market (just outside London). My Prius was an absolute bargain too because of it's burgundy colour and a couple of BIG scratches on the rear bumper. 

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4 hours ago, trade vet said:

No you never get any thanks.Except when someone you have helped previously has then bought elsewhere but then returned for another car having had issues with both the dealer and the warranty company.

 

the customers you give your time to but ultimately return are giving thanks by returning and spending with you

i have had lots of these customers over the years so the bottle of malt at xmas isnt always that important in the bigger picture

its also nice to think that you hadn't done anything wrong when they initially had taken your time but purchased elsewhere because its always annoying at the time unless you think back and they were an arse anyway so glad they went and now they return you realise their expectations were too large all along

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